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Post Info TOPIC: Didn't The Legion Tell Us Scranton Had $250 Million In Long-Term Debt?
Agamemnon


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RE: Didn't The Legion Tell Us Scranton Had $250 Million In Long-Term Debt?
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The COBRA thing is a little complicated. Generally speaking, it's designed for people who are being terminated from employment (voluntarily or otherwise) for reasons other than, like, stealing, sexual harassment, etc. (I think the regs say "reasons other than gross misconduct" or something like that). My understanding is that a retiree could be eligible, but then the issue becomes one of age....Medicare + Medi-gap insurance has to be much cheaper than even the best group rate, so if you are eligible for Medicare, you should probably take that instead of COBRA.

So yes, they probably would have to purchase via COBRA, although there is a time limit for COBRA benefits (I'd have to look that up with the DOL).

Side note...it's my understanding that many firemen in Scranton have other employment on the side, so perhaps medical benefits would be available via that avenue. That may actually be cheaper for them.

Final note: COBRA wasn't designed as this sort of "gab before Medicare" insurance thing, hence the time limit, etc. The government assumes that people will be working...with benefits...until they reach age 65 and retire.


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IHavehadenoughofhaters


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sharilewis wrote:

Well this is good news today. Chris Doherty gets to lay off firemen, close fire stations and eliminates medical care for retirees.

So the idea of layoffs in a huge recession surprises you?? Have you, by any chance, noticed what is happening in the financial world these last few months, Einstein?? I for one have already watched two members of my immediate family receive their layoff notices, both are college educated one with a dual bachelor degree and the other with a master degree in his field. Hey Sherri maybe you should try looking beyond your own myopic view and get a clue, financially the whole country is in dire straits.

Medical benefits beyond your working years being paid for by whom....Me?? Are you kidding. why should I pay for your medical benefits and then pay for my own as well? In the event my spouse and I survive in our respective jobs until retirement age (yes my spouse too is a degree professional, I on the other hand am unskilled , I probably will lose my job first as I am in sales.) we will not receive, nor had we expected to, any medical benefits as part of our retirement. This sense of entitlement, Sherri, that you and the others who work in the city demonstrate, is exactly why you have virtually no support from the average guy. You have for years been receiving cadillac benefits and still you were not satisfied. You should get down on your knees at night and thank God you and your loved ones have jobs at all.This is no longer a guarantee for anyone in this country.



Great! Oh, wait, didn't he say he would "never cut pubic safety"?


Sorry Sherri I dont feel the least bit scared with less firemen on duty. I have lived in a place were there were NO FIREMEN on duty ever. The fire department was all volunteer. When a fire occurred, whoever was available came.... and guess what.. it was just fine. Oh in case you are wonderin, yes I actually did have a fire (a very nasty one actually) and the volunteer guys were great. The house was lost, but no lives and nothing that could not be replaced was lost.....imagine that! Most of the guys (no gals on this particular call) came from quite a distance too, Sherri,..none of them lived within the 4 miles of any point in the city like we do, for the most part. So.... do I want an all volunteer fire force here no ..but on the other hand I am not going to be hoodwinked into believing the "the sky is falling crap" your union talking points would like us to believe either. I am not a child. I know how the world runs outside of Lackawanna county and Scranton city. It is about time you got out and learned it as well Sherri.


Now we pay 25% more in taxes and we'll get less fire department services. Great deal for us, don't you think?

Seems about right for times we are in, my salary hasn't improved in 2 years (now it will be 3) despite my sales growing steadily over the same time. My spouse has (as have all the employees of this particular company) actually taken a reduction this year, after no increase the year before, so you see Sherri, your pissing and whining falls on very unsympathetic ears, at least for me anyway. As I mentioned, given the state of the countys financial situation, we are both very grateful to still be employed.




-- Edited by IHavehadenoughofhaters at 00:05, 2009-01-25

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Puzzler


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RE: Didn't The Legion Tell Us Scranton Had $250 Million In Long-Term Debt?
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Sheri, why doesn't the Union get your buddy want to be lawyer Joe P to appeal this ruling to the State Supreme Court? He'll never win (just like Jennings) but at least he can give you more propaganda for your conspiracy theories, and I bet he'd even throw in some vulgar nicknames for free.

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sharilewis


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Nasty today, aren't we? Well, I'll stay civil. Cadillac plan? What exactly is a cadillac plan? Do you mean Blue Cross traditional? We haven't had that plan since 1989. Who told you that?
Hubby's pension will be about 19 thousand a year. Yep, we'll be getting a new Benz on that money.
Ihave, I don't know where to start, but I'll tell you what. Why don't we all get together and find out what the diswasher makes at Chick's Diner. Then we can all go back to our employers and request we get the same. No healthcare, no benefits, low pay and hard work. We can then all go to the state building and sign up for medical assistance, food stamps, Reagan Cheese and the WIC program. We will all be so happy to be in the same bad economic situation together. Would that make you happy? By the way, when performing your sales job, do you have to chase and tackle criminals? Or at gun point arrest people? Maybe run into burning buildings? Maybe, just maybe, that's why they have benefits till they reach medicare age. Like those damn soldiers that fight for our country. They should just cut them from the veterans benefits. We have to pay for that too. Wow.no.gif

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Agamemnon


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"By the way, when performing your sales job, do you have to chase and tackle criminals? Or at gun point arrest people? Maybe run into burning buildings? Maybe, just maybe, that's why they have benefits till they reach medicare age."


You must be Catholic Shari...I see the attempt at guilting starting to seep through.

Do I think that police and firemen should have healthcare coverage that is reasonable in scope and price? Sure. Do I think they deserve it more so than anyone else? ABSOLUTELY NOT. I'd like to think that we are all equally valuable as human beings. IHave may not chase down criminals, but her value as a person is not less than that of a policeman who does. Now working in sales may not be inherently more dangerous than being a police officer, but (for example) working in construction is actually more dangerous than being a policeman. By virute of that, should construction workers have better healthcare coverage than Scranton cops?

Image22.gif


(the chart is for California, but it makes the point)


Look, if you want to be a public servant, than you take the job knowing that you could get injured (or in very rare cases, killed). That doesn't make you more worthy of reasonably priced and reasonably comprehensive healthcare coverage than anyone else.


-- Edited by Agamemnon at 18:50, 2009-01-24

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Puzzler


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RE: Didn't The Legion Tell Us Scranton Had $250 Million In Long-Term Debt?
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Shari, please don't compare the Scranton Union with the Military. You are comparing apples and penguins in terms of salaries, risks, and profesionalism.



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IHavehadenoughofhaters


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sharilewis wrote:

Nasty today, aren't we?
No more than you darling!!

Well, I'll stay civil. Cadillac plan? What exactly is a cadillac plan? Do you mean Blue Cross traditional? We haven't had that plan since 1989. Who told you that?

Perhaps the "past tense" I used escaped your notice let me be more clear so even you can understand. You had been receiving cadilac benefits and yet you were still not satisfied. Another words You (union) keep pushing until the camel's back broke so that now you will reap what you had sowed.

Hubby's pension will be about 19 thousand a year. Yep, we'll be getting a new Benz on that money.

Well you won't be getting a benz (that would be your savior Missy Jan's taste in vehicles) nor medical benfits after you retire either.... sucks to be you!! :)

Ihave, I don't know where to start, but I'll tell you what. Why don't we all get together and find out what the diswasher makes at Chick's Diner. Then we can all go back to our employers and request we get the same. No healthcare, no benefits, low pay and hard work. We can then all go to the state building and sign up for medical assistance, food stamps, Reagan Cheese and the WIC program.


Wow lol lol you sound like my kids when they realize they are losing an argument. They start resorting to crazy analogies to throw everyone off topic lol lol nice try but no cigar!!


We will all be so happy to be in the same bad economic situation together. Would that make you happy?

I don't need anyone else to make me happy dear. I already am happy. I also am bright enough to know if I am ever unhappy in my job I could always look for a new one...ever think of that Sherri baby?? LOL It always amazes me to hear how AWFUL the jobs for the city are but, boy oh boy, everyone will knife the next guy to get one and then you couldn't beat them out of the jobs with a baseball bat!! LOL LOL


By the way, when performing your sales job, do you have to chase and tackle criminals? Or at gun point arrest people? Maybe run into burning buildings? Maybe, just maybe, that's why they have benefits till they reach medicare age.

Oh boy, like the kids, when the crazy analogies don't work resort to wild guilt trips lol lol You can always pick out the irish catholics in any crowd. They have the guilt thing down to a science ( as I am Irish catholic I know what I speak of). Next thing you will be swearing that it's all for the children.... lol lol
If you don't want to run into burning buildings or chase criminals with guns, you might want to consider a new profession lol. On the other hand if you had to deal with some of my customers, you might consider running into a burning build after a criminal with a gun, a better option lol lol


Like those damn soldiers that fight for our country. They should just cut them from the veterans benefits. We have to pay for that too. Wow.no.gif


Oh no not at all....I have no problem paying anything to a soldier they might need or want, and they could double my taxes, if that is where the money is going. However you know what I really find amazing?? Soldiers actually do get paid dirt low wages and you never hear them whine. Ironic isn't it?? Also, please try to refrain in the future from comparing yourself and your whining friends to the men and women in the miltary, none of you could wipe their shoes!! Please!!



-- Edited by IHavehadenoughofhaters at 00:37, 2009-01-25

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VinceWhirlwind


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shari, stay away from the military references in comparison to union city employees please. my son was deployed for over a year and a half, makes next to nothing and is doing this for his country. you couldn't shine his shoes.

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Agamemnon


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Vince...

Exceptionally well said.

And all the best to your son...is he still serving overseas? If so, care to share where he is serving?



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LusOnlyVoice


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A prayer for Vince's Son and all soldiers serving our country:

Soldier's Psalm 91 Prayer
By Harriet Yoder

O Lord Most High, help me to dwell in your secret place and abide under Your shadow.

Help me to believe and say out loud for everyone to hear that You are my refuge and my fortress; that You are my God; and that in You I put my trust.

O Lord God Almighty, please deliver me from hidden traps and diseases.

Father God, cover me with Your camouflage; hide me under Your wings; and let Your truth be my shield and buckler against the fiery dartsthe liesof the enemy.

Lord Jesus, help me not to be afraid of terrorists' attacks in the night; or weapons that fly by day; or sicknesses that walk in darkness; or destruction that wastes at noonday.

O Holy God, though a thousand fall at my side, and ten thousand fall at my right hand; please let it not come close to me and my companions.

O Lord Most High, let me live to see the reward of the wicked, because You are my refuge and my home. Let no evil conquer me and let no plague come into my house or near my family.

O Lord, my Strength and my Redeemer, please set angels over me to keep me in all Your ways, to bear me up in their hands and to keep my feet from stumbling.

Father God, help me to tread upon the lion and adder and trample the young lion and the dragon under my feet.

Lord Jesus, I love you with all my heart and I know Your name. Deliver me and lift me on high to soar with the eagles. I call upon you to be with me in times of trouble to deliver and honor me because I know Your name. Please show me Your salvation and satisfy me with a long life.

I ask this prayer in the name of Jesus Christ

Amen.


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VinceWhirlwind


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thank you all for your kind words and thoughts. my son came home on leave after serving his country in classified posts in various parts of the world including the mideast hot spots and guantanamo, cuba. thanks again for your kindness.

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sharilewis


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I guess I was wrong Ag. The debt worse than I thought. As soon as I can get my hands on the new audit with authority debt included, I'll try to verify these numbers.

From the Times Leader
In other discussions, council member Evans warned taxpayers about the $444 million debt principal "behemoth" hovering over the city. She said voters have to decide in 2009 whether to continue to increase debt or take action to pay it down. She said $273 million of the debt is directly tied to mayor Chris Dohertys administration and has been "glamorized and sanitized."

From the Scranton Times:
Also on Tuesday, Mrs. Evans criticized the citys debt detailed in the 2007 audit, calling it an unacceptable behemoth. The audit projects a collective long-term debt (including authorities and interest) that totals $273 million with payments through 2039. By itself, the citys long-term principal debt is $95 million.

May God keep your son safe Vince. I have a nephew I adore who just returned from Iraq safe and sound. We were very worried about him during his deployment.


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IHavehadenoughofhaters


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sharilewis wrote:

council member Evans warned taxpayers about the $444 million debt principal "behemoth" hovering over the city. She said voters have to decide in 2009 whether to continue to increase debt or take action to pay it down. She said $273 million of the debt is directly tied to mayor Chris Dohertys administration and has been "glamorized and sanitized."


Well If Missy Jan says it ....it must be so! After all she has demonstrated such good judgement in her partner for life and god only knows her reputation is solid :))..



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sharilewis


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RE: Didn't The Legion Tell Us Scranton Had $250 Million In Long-Term Debt?
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She said she got the numbers from the audits. If she was wrong, I assume the mayor would have had a front page article on how wrong she is. I won't take her word for it, I'll check the numbers first. If I can obtain an electronic copy of the audits, I'll post them.

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IHavehadenoughofhaters


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that I can accept :)

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sharilewis


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No condescending retort? Thank you!

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IHavehadenoughofhaters


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That is what we have been telling you all along. Talk about whatever you want but if you insist on me or anyone else seeing things only as you do it won't work. I have my perspective, you have yours, but facts are facts so give me facts and I will draw my own conclusions.

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Agamemnon


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"I guess I was wrong Ag. The debt worse than I thought. As soon as I can get my hands on the new audit with authority debt included, I'll try to verify these numbers."

Please tell me Shari, is the Times a "rag" or is it a valid source of information. I'd love to know. It seems that you, like most Pilchesky cronies, love to quote it selectively. It's actually pretty funny, as I suspect you too are "boycotting" the Times.

As to the reporting of the debt numbers in the Times (I wouldn't buy the Times Leader if it cost a penny BTW), I saw the reference, and they properly qualified it. That does nothing to change my central point:

If you, Shari, take out a $100,000 mortgage, do you consider it a $100,000 mortgage or a $240,000 mortgage?

If you, Shari, charge $500 on a credit card today, assuming that your APR is 18%, what is your balance? According to you (and Nelson), your actual balance is about $999 (assuming you pay it off over 6 years and don't charge anything else).

My other central piont: Nelson (and you, and Pilchesky, etc.) got GREEDY. As I said before, and which you never addressed, he could have accurately quoted the city's long-term debt...which is far too large (something like 10 times the LTD of Allentown, BTW...but why include a little fact like that when you can instead use the word "billion" in a sentence? ), but it simply wasn't enough for him. He had a rifle, but he wanted a bazooka. Typical Pilchesky crony: never let a good point go by without embellishing it to the point of nonsense.

No wonder Doherty never addresses people like Pilchesky or Nelson...he doesn't have to. They harm themselves far more effectively than he ever could.


-- Edited by Agamemnon at 21:20, 2009-01-29

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sharilewis


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RE: Didn't The Legion Tell Us Scranton Had $250 Million In Long-Term Debt?
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Whether you include principal or interest or both, is the debt not real? My $110,000 mortgage is just that. But is my payment based on the original $110,000 or is it based on it and interest? Is the debt good? Will we pay for it over the next 20+ years? What has all the borrowing done for our community other than fill the pockets of his campaign contributors? Is the population growing other than illegals? Is the tax based growing? Are your streets safer? Are they cleaner? Was it worth it for all the millions spent (wasted)? Are you happy we have crony jobs stuffed into the SPA and SSA? Are you happy we subsidize the SPA? Are you happy he blew 5 million on the sewer deal? Are you happy about the 50+% rate increase? Or the 25% tax increase? What do we really have to show for it all? A washed out trial, overpriced bathhouse, overpriced dog park, new empty buildings downtown, failed tax free businesses, unqualified managers? Do you or can you see it or are you in denial? I'll ask all of you again for an honest answer. What has Chris Doherty done that wasn't overpriced, that actually helped the city financially, that increased the tax base, that didn't involve someone who gave him money and cut waste? Name one example.

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davidevans


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How dare you
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How dare you ask those questions. My God, you sound like Janet. How dare anyone show the other side of the coin.
Beyond all of that, I will tell you one great thing Chris has done for the city.
He has made people aware of their surroundings. People in most neighborhoods are fixing up there homes and making them attractive again. Thats a good thing. Problem is, how long can the people keep there homes? I can't wait till May. David

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Agamemnon


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RE: Didn't The Legion Tell Us Scranton Had $250 Million In Long-Term Debt?
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Shari...

Assume you just took out the $100,000 mortgage and $500 credit card balance, and that is your only debt. You now apply for a student loan. The loan application asks you to list the amount of your debts. What do you list in the application?

A. You list "approximately $240,999"
B. You list "approximately $100,500"

I can't make it any simpler than that for you.

Get over that little hump and we can then talk abouit how Janet Evans will save the world from the evil, FBI-bribing Chris Doherty.




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His Girl Thursday


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RE: Didn't The Legion Tell Us Scranton Had $250 Million In Long-Term Debt?
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sheri, for. the. love. of. God.
... just answer the question already.

and stop pussy-footing around

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sharilewis


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RE: Didn't The Legion Tell Us Scranton Had $250 Million In Long-Term Debt?
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Sorry Ag. Try again. Do they not ask you what your monthly payments are on your current debt? Will they not base the new payments on your ability to pay them on top of what you already pay relative to your current debt? I don't know where you get your loans, but my bank wants to know what my payments are on debt, LTD payments) factor in my income (tax revenue) and then decide if I can handle the new payments. Right? Or do you borrow from a loan shark who only considers your principal debt and never takes into consideration the ratio of you income and liabilities? Sorry friend, wrong again. Just look at our junk bond status. bbb That's because we're swimming in debt. That's how Wall Street comes to that conclusion on a city's rating. Your move Mellon.

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FormerDrunken Southern Preacher


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RE: Didn't The Legion Tell Us Scranton Had $250 Million In Long-Term Debt?
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"You say potato and I say potahto, You say tomato and I say tomahto; Potato, potahto, Tomato, tomahto, Let's call the whole thing off"

Why's everybody geting their panties wadded up over who said what and how someone interprets debt.

Bottom line: you borrow money and pay back both the principle and the interest. Depending on what type of loan application I've seen, reporting of your debt can be listed either way. The amount of the loan or your monthy loan payments and how many months you have remaining.

Unless the money lenders to the city of Scranton aren't charging interest, then the reporting by the city of what the "True" value of that loan is over it's life can be decieving.

Just reporting the debt is not enough. With the city's lower bond rating we pay more in interest (adding more to the overall face value of the loan) than cities with a higher bond rating.

I do not think that Doherty started the city's downward spiral of spending verses borrowing, but he hasn't done much to as least keep it flat.

This upcoming year will be a financial hardship for everyone regardless of whether you are in the public or private sector. The days of our government balancing the budget by borrowing will end. Very tough decisions will need to be made regarding what services the city, county, state, or federal government will actually provide and how those services will be paid for.

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IHavehadenoughofhaters


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Very well put FDSP. :)

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Agamemnon


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FDSP...as IHave said, very well put. I especially agree with your statement...

"I do not think that Doherty started the city's downward spiral of spending verses borrowing, but he hasn't done much to as least keep it flat."

I think that pretty much says it all.

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sharilewis


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Wrong again Ag. Our debt has grown from 37million (principal) to now 95 Million (principal) in 7 years. Add in the debt of the authorities which I believe is more than the city's debt alone and the only conclusion is that Doherty rapidy accelerated and increased the debt like never before. The numbers don't lie. But wait tll I get them and I post them. Then you can see it in black and white.

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davidevans


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3.1 Million
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Conners had a 3.1 surplus
Who started the downturn ???
Amuse me please !

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VinceWhirlwind


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there was a surplus because nothing was ever done, started, etc. grant money that was applied for had to be given back because the job was never started. isn't this when the state imposed sanctions upon the city? seems if i remember right that mr. connors was more prone to give everyone everything they wanted because he is a nice guy and didn't want to take a stand. reasonable explanations anyone?

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LusOnlyVoice


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Bill were never paid!

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