Lus, you're slipping ... you didn't specify WHITE "member of the ICN and is a crony no good bastard "

I'm surprised that Glenn didn't post about this (the audit finally coming in and the long-term debt number) at DD, but perhaps he was affraid of the reaction. Anyway & as I said before, this is not good news; when you look at other cities of similar size you find long-term debt amounts that are substantially less.

But hey, why let some facts about finances get in the way of some absurd comments about oral sex.

Free Speech does't require a multi-paragrah disclaimer Mr. Pilchesky.

Sorry, but given Ozzie's history with math (as in the Habitat for Humanity kind), he'd be the last person I'd listen to when it came to estimating debt.

Free Speech does't require a multi-paragrah disclaimer Mr. Pilchesky.

Again...an audit comes in very, very late but is still full of facts about city finances, yet NOT ONE DD poster is going to comment on it?


As Lus said, if I were to guess as to why there are no comments, it's because the facts of the audit run counter to the crowing over the past few years by folks like Nelson. All the more reason to believe that the vast majority of comments on DD are more SELF and CITY serving. When a FACT comes along that isn't SELF serving to the DD troops it is ignored; if it can't be used to pummel Chris Doherty then it might as well not exist.

Free Speech does't require a multi-paragrah disclaimer Mr. Pilchesky.

My point was that even Ozzie Quinn, who frequently uses debt as an example of what is wrong with the city budget, only credited somewhere around $100 million as the city's portion.

This debt amount, however, is still much too large for a city Scranton's size. There will be severe consequences if something is not done.

GC

Hi all! I'm back from the grave for a brief visit and once again correcting Ag.
Ag, you're a little off in this post.
Yes the city has around $95,000,000 in debt. (principal only) But what you are missing is the debt of the parking authority, the Scranton Redevelopment Authority and the Sewer Authority. That number does not include interest on the debt either. While it may not be proper to include the authority debt, doesn't make it less real. All debt incurred by the authorities are backed up by the city's ability to tax it's citizens. What that means is the taxpayers are ultimately on the hook for authority debt.
If the parking garages fail to bring in enough money to operate, money from the city general fund must be allocated to cover it. That's happening already and has happened for many years now. (at least three years that I'm sure of)
I haven't heard of any city general fund money being sent to the SRA yet to cover expenses but the rate payers of the sewer authority have already been clobbered to cover the cost of Chris Doherty's broken contact with the private management firm. 58% increases and more to come. None of that money has been used yet for the Chesapeak Bay mandates. Hopefully the new Obama administration will step in and help with that.
I'm not sure what the exact numbers are for the authorities (and won't know until those portions of the audits are out) but in my estimation you can add about 90,000,000 to 120,000,000 to that number. Add on the interest payments for the life of those bonds and you will come up to approximately what Nelson Ancarranti (sp?) has been presenting.
The length of the bonds and the interest payments in the future are real and cannot be discounted. Chris Doherty has buried this city in severe debt that will take a long and painful journey to correct.
The collateral to back this collective borrowing, from all sources, are us.

Ag if I had to put money on it ... I would wager that Shari didn't miss you one little bit. Nor you her ... LOL

You are well oiled in union information/propaganda Shari, I give you that; while I don't question the debt, I do question how you express it.

For example, including principal and interest together may make sense if you are looking to bash the person that incurred that debt, but that's about the only time it does. I could tell you that aggregate cummulative future value of principal and interest is almost never normally quoted in a business context when talking about a company's balance sheet...but I'm thinking that for your purposes that wouldn't matter anyway. You (and Nelson and others) are just looking for the biggest possible stick to bash Doherty. Fair enough...I do give you credit for writing what you did without using the word "blowjob" once...and that puts you in the 99 percentile for all of DD posters.

Anyway, let's stip the "valient fighter for good government" bull$hit away and cut the to chase though: you want a raise. I don't blame you and your fellow public safety employees for wanting a raise...hell, I think you deserve one (especially the Police)...but that's an entirely different cause than the one you are attempting to fight here.

Speaking of bashing Doherty, I realize that there is nothing that could ever be said to you that would ever get you to admitt that Chris Doherty has done an ounce of good for this city. In fact, I'm thinking that you'd definitely sleep with the lowest scumbag on the planet to get rid of the man, hence the association with Pilchesky. Oh, along those lines...let me congratulate you in advance Shari...one day you will be living proof that the ends don't always justify the means.

Finally, you didn't answer my simple-but-key question: when the audit came out from Rossi there wasn't a big "to do" about it in DD; hell, I barely remember if the article was cut and pasted from the Times (you know, the newspaper you are boycotting..snicker, snicker). Now why is that? Not even a peep from Bo Peep!

Okay, this has rambled on enough. This Brazil ("Otis" Brazil to be specific) is tired.


-- Edited by Agamemnon at 23:19, 2009-01-19

Free Speech does't require a multi-paragrah disclaimer Mr. Pilchesky.

My God, it's annoying thatthis program continues to cram words together, makingmypostings look like gibberish.

You don't get it Shari, do you? This has never really been about Chris Doherty...an average politician at best. Lus started this board because she wanted to talk about the peformance of the Mayor without being censored by Pilchesky. Do you honestly believe that complete, utter nonsense at DD that everyone who disagrees with Pilchesky is somehow a Doherty Zombie? I'd like to think that you're smarter than that. Be careful though...I'm sure Joe is watching.

No one here is claiming that Chris Doherty is a financial genius, and as for your union talking points, I'll let them stand, as-is, because the simple point here is this: no city of Scranton's size is able to attract substantial investment without public money. What's more, I personally doubt it's possible to reduce taxes in Scranton without substantial restructuring of government....something that unionized city employees would fight tooth and nail. What you...and your fellow city employees*...want is to have your cake (raises, benefits, perks) and to eat it too (without any cost to you and other taxpayers). Now does Doherty take the public money thing too far? Yes, he does. Is he guilty of all manner of crimes, including your not-so-subtle allegation of bribery? No...and as for proof, if this is so widely known, as you claim, then where in the indictment? Where is the FBI? Where is the big investigation? Those things don't exist, but I'll tell you what we do have: a bunch of bitter city hall employees who are upset that Doherty rocked the boat. When last I checked, the only person we routinely talk about on this board who is currently indicted is Joanne Pilchesky (don't comment on that one Shari, as Joe will nail your a$$ to the wall; that's one of the "not allowed" topics at DD).

By the way, it's amazing that you've STILL not answered my question about why the audit didn't receive PRIMO attention at DD. Touchy subject, huh?

FINALLY, if Nelson's way of expressing debt were acceptable, then almost everyone in this country with a mortgage would be functionally insolvent; for example, if you Shari have a $100,000 mortgage, would you have $239,500 in assets to support the debt? That would be $139,500 in liquid assets over and above the value of the home itself.



(*) As for you not being a city employee, well I'm going to respectfully not believe you. You have all the union talking points down far too pat for that. Anonymous message boards create far too easy an opportunity for folks like you to create just about any fiction they want. Now you could lay the same claim against me, but you would be grossly mistaken: people here know my real name and some know where I work, and I'm not just talking about the moderators either. Hint...it isn't really Otis Brazil and it's not the City of Scranton.



-- Edited by Agamemnon at 07:17, 2009-01-20

Free Speech does't require a multi-paragrah disclaimer Mr. Pilchesky.

Shari,

Now before I jump into the task at hand, I do want to say this: your claim that Chris Doherty has somehow "bought off" the FBI, et all is really, seriously messed up. I thought you were a more or less rational dude, as many of your arguments point to that; however if you honestly believe that a federal agency can be swayed by a small-town hick politician like Chris Doherty, then I'm affraid that you're about as rational as that headcase AntiSemeticMovements.

Seriously, if you have credible evidence of an FBI official(s) on the take, then present it...name the official(s)...otherwise I'm going to treat this like I'm engaged in a debate about space aliens with Riley Martin.

My comments in (red bold).


I'll keep playing Ag. And I do get it, thank you.
I didn't refer to Pilchesky once and I thought this thread was about the city's debt. (Shari, what's the name of this board???? You may want to double check that.) I really don't care about talking about Pilchesky or the references you make about who posts over there. (Oh well...I do...refer to the name of this board please) I was just interested in this post and responded. If you want to keep bring up posters on DD or the "legion of doom", fine. I'm not playing that. (No, instead you just keep droning on about Doherty's supposed evils...some true, some not so true...but in the end, just what is the name of this message board again????) I just wanted to respond to the subject at hand. (And so you have; congrats, you have represented yourself well for someone who kisses Pilchesky's a$$...well at least until you claimed that the FBI is "on the take") If I'm annoying you by not taking your bait by getting into a debate about posters or Plchesky, I'm sorry. (Shari, you are incapable of annoying me) I just wanted to educate you on the city's finances (Now that's funny Shari. Trust me, my level of education is fine & when I need more, I seek it out myself...what I don't need is a bitter city employee to throw union propaganda in my face; by the way, your "educate" comment makes you sound like that scum-bag Anti...you going to supply us with a required reading list next? How about a comparison between Scranton in 2009 and NYC circa 1879?) and the importance of this subject to all of us.
Also, you shown your defeatest attitude by saying no city will get investment without public money. (Defeatest? KOZ wasn't created just for Scranton dude...maybe it's you that needs the education) I don't subscribe to that attitude. If a city has a low taxation rate, safe streets and a value relative to services/tax rates, a city will be successful and people will want to move there. (Funny, but the things you list don't necessary go together; see my comment on the 1% wage tax) Once the people are there, business will follow to service and profit from the population. Building things and hoping people will come, has never been very successful. This city needs to focus on safe, clean neighborhoods. We've been pumping state, federal and local tax dollars into the downtown for nearly 40 years. (Wait...wait a minute...I thought Doherty was the spawn of all Scranton' evils. You mean to tell me that this has been going on for that long? My God man, you are contradicting yourself right and left.) Has that built our true tax base? No it hasn't. We need a radical shift in where we spend our money. ANd to build a safe and clean city, we need services. DPW, Fire and Police. Not bridges to nowhere, treehouses and grants for KOZ businesses downtown that half of them have failed already. The reason they failed is because noone is patronizing them. There's not enough people to support those businesses.
That's the true crime. CHris Doherty is not pushing businesses to open because he thinks they will be successful, he's financing them to get the ribbon cutting pictures and purveying the sense of progress to get what he always wanted: a congressional seat. (That sounds like typical DD paranoia. I thought you were smarter than that...my bad. Didn't Pilchesky and his MENSA crew claim that he was getting a job in Harrisburg several years ago?) This isn't about rebuilding the city, this has always been about building his political future. (at any cost) 100's of millions of dollars spent, a million to get re-elected etc) It's been a dismal failure.
Where is the FBI? The attorney general? The DA? The auditor general? Check it out Ag, he's connected to all of them. (SORRY SHARI, YOU'VE JUMPED THE SHARK ON THAT ONE. You seriously mean that the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT is on Chris Doherty's payroll? Based on that comment alone you should be relegated to the lunatic fringe department. Seriously dude...read what you just wrote. You mean to tell me that it doesn't sound the least bit paranoid to you????) It's been hands off since the start. Money talks and he's outlayed a ton of it to all of them. (Name the officials within the FBI that are on Chris Doherty's payroll)

I can only assume the audit's lack of conversation over there is because many posters don't understand the issues. (You mean that they are stupid. Just way it Shari...you have no problem being blunt when it comes to Doherty) Other than Pilchesky, Glen and a few others that have a grip on it, most subjects discussed are surface issues. The obvious, in your face stuff.
As far as my relationship with city employees, maybe it should be obvious that I'm one of the people who inject my thoughts to them. (That makes no sense Shari, but honestly, I'm not sure I want to know what it really means anyway) They learn quickly and see it clearly. Many of them know much more than I. They have a horse in the race and are passionate, my motivation is stopping a man that's completely ruining a city I love and don't want to leave. Most of my friends and family have left, as can I. I chose to stay and fight a little longer.

As far as my mortgage, I understand what you are saying, (No you don't, because if you did, you'd simply admit that Nelson was wrong) but I do need to afford the payments on that mortgage. The city cannot afford the mortgage payments Chris Doherty created unless he builds the tax base. (When you are in debt, the smarter thing to do is NOT increase your revenue, but instead to cut your expenses....but wait, who is "educating" who here?) He's doing the opposite. Once he reduces services further (especially the police) that tax base will decline further, compounding the situation. He can care less, since he can afford it. Most cannot. Most people outside of the city can enjoy the new bars, the parks and the treehouse. They then go home to their 1% wage tax, or their no merchantile taxed businesses. No harm to them. (Hold on here Sparky...what's the difference between those 1% wage tax communities and Scranton? Could it be that we have professional, expensive public safety employees who enjoy salaries, healthcare and pensions? Could it be that we have virtually all the governmental buildings in the county? Could it be that we have more charitable/not-for-profits than they do? Could it be that comparing a 1% wage tax community without those things to a city that has them is incredible dumb on your part? You can decide.) But then again, aren't they the people Doherty has been playing to? Why is that? You don't get Ag, do you? (I get that you think Chris Doherty has "paid off" the FBI; that's laughable.)

Free Speech does't require a multi-paragrah disclaimer Mr. Pilchesky.

i realize that the two of you are having a lot of fun with this post.......however, it is a fact that if there is trimming to be done, all areas need to be trimmed. yikes! i said it! i believe that it was also stated in here that he cleared the floor of jimmy connors' employees. well..... welcome to politics although i know that this isn't entirely true as there are some city employees that have been there quite a while. let me tell you a little story of my personal experience that still has me a bit frosted. i used to own a business that i had to throw in the towel on and that's ok. i'm fine with that, but one of the issues was that i was constantly being undercut in my business by some city employees that did the same sort of jobs in their "spare" time. i would go and give a quote to someone and know that i was going to possibly get the job, but it often happened that i would lose the job to someone who didn't have to pay their own health care and liability insurance. when someone is trying to feed their family on one career, it's very difficult to feel sorry for someone who hasn't had a raise in their "first" career, but is doing great in their second or spare job. i know this may be a bit off point, but after reading your exchanges it prompted somethinking.
Also, what's wrong with getting public money and grants, etc. to help your city or community? am i reading these posts incorrectly?

I guess I was wrong. I thought naivety wasn't one of your weaknesses.
If you understand the system sweety or is it dude, the FBI does not prosecute cases, they investigate them. Prosecution is decided elsewhere. Therein lies your hint. That's all you get on that subject and that's simply my opinion. I could be wrong, but probably not.

(Shari, you are incapable of annoying me)
The underline is a dead giveaway Ag

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but am I not allowed to discuss anything here unless I throw in a few barbs at Pilchesky or others? Is that a prerequisite here?

You are correct about KOZ's, but what you fail to mention in your vast education is the FACT that it's been a failure throughout the state. In fact, the state is beginning hearings on the progress of lack thereof of the KOZ program. It's been nothing but Rendell's checkbook to cronys. Thank heavens for term limits.

Yep, 40 years at least. You would think such a brilliant persn like Chris would see it after 30+ years of failure. But you see, oh educated one, it's not about economic development, it's about political development and funding campaigns.

Would it make sense if I told you my husband is a city employee? There I said it. That's all you get too.

Nelson is not wrong. You are. Go ahead admit it Ag. It's a good first step.

What is the difference between the expenses of a small town and a big town when ot comes to "expensive public safety salaries, pensions and benefits"???
Do small towns not have secretaries, Police Officers, some with paid firemen and road crews? Do they all work for free and not have benefits, salaries and pensions? Name one small town anywhere that doesn't have paid people working for them and one that doesn't give their employees benefits and pensions? Even some towns with volunteer fire departments expend capital to fund them and the town's people donate money in lieu of taxes to keep them running. (fundraisers, picnics, raffles etc) It's all relative. Small town, small departments. Large towns, large departments. Your argument doesn't make any sense.

I'm not paranoid at all. And he's not supernatural. (well I'm sure he thinks he is) He's simply connected. Educate yourself "dude".

Vince, I agree, but I'm not talking about regular city workers, I'm talking about cabinet and management positions. Connors had too many to begin with and while they were replaced by Doherty, he added so many more. The original positions didn't have much to do and the point I'm trying to make is the dead wood isn't the regular employees. The fat is at the top now. When there was fat at the bottom, it was cut. Would you rather have sanitation workers, firemen, police officers or building inspectors cut or the worthless cronys taking up space? Hey, is your money and you have to decide.

sharilewis wrote:

---

I guess I was wrong. I thought naivety wasn't one of your weaknesses.
If you understand the system sweety or is it dude, the FBI does not prosecute cases, they investigate them. Prosecution is decided elsewhere. Therein lies your hint. That's all you get on that subject and that's simply my opinion. I could be wrong, but probably not.

Actually the FBI investigates and brings in the prosecutor....if the FBIthinks there is evidence enough to go forward...oh and one more thing despite how it may appear in the end to us "the powers that be" do not prosecute a case unless they are convinced beyond a reasonable doubt that they will pull down a win. Sorry to burst your bubble but it actually is a bean counter kind of thing not a connected kind of thing (you doknow that "they" have succesfully prosecuted mob bosses don't you? Surely you aren't so naive as to believeDoherty is more connected than ...ah... say Bufalino for instance are you??)

(Shari, you are incapable of annoying me)
The underline is a dead giveaway Ag

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but am I not allowed to discuss anything here unless I throw in a few barbs at Pilchesky or others? Is that a prerequisite here?

Oh you certainly can post away with or without the barbswhat you can't do is expect anyone to automatically agree with you or buy into your bull$hit.

You are correct about KOZ's, but what you fail to mention in your vast education is the FACT that it's been a failure throughout the state. In fact, the state is beginning hearings on the progress of lack thereof of the KOZ program. It's been nothing but Rendell's checkbook to cronys. Thank heavens for term limits.

Yep, 40 years at least. You would think such a brilliant persn like Chris would see it after 30+ years of failure. But you see, oh educated one, it's not about economic development, it's about political development and funding campaigns.

again.....you have just described every politician who has ever lived including your blonde savior..next!

Would it make sense if I told you my husband is a city employee? There I said it. That's all you get too.

Wow what a bombshell admission this might make the evening news!! OOOO I bet in the fire department.. wow I am a real detective aren't I??

Nelson is not wrong. You are. Go ahead admit it Ag. It's a good first step.

Nelson is a self-serving jerk! I wonder if he would work so hard if the person benefitting from it weren't himself?? How many hours does he spend on this nonsense and how many does he spend in the pursuit of good for someone else??

What is the difference between the expenses of a small town and a big town when ot comes to "expensive public safety salaries, pensions and benefits"???
Do small towns not have secretaries, Police Officers, some with paid firemen and road crews? Do they all work for free and not have benefits, salaries and pensions? Name one small town anywhere that doesn't have paid people working for them and one that doesn't give their employees benefits and pensions? Even some towns with volunteer fire departments expend capital to fund them and the town's people donate money in lieu of taxes to keep them running. (fundraisers, picnics, raffles etc) It's all relative. Small town, small departments. Large towns, large departments. Your argument doesn't make any sense.

I'm not paranoid at all. And he's not supernatural. (well I'm sure he thinks he is) He's simply connected. Educate yourself "dude".
again.....you have just described every politician who has ever lived including your blonde savior..next!

Vince, I agree, but I'm not talking about regular city workers, I'm talking about cabinet and management positions. Connors had too many to begin with and while they were replaced by Doherty, he added so many more. The original positions didn't have much to do and the point I'm trying to make is the dead wood isn't the regular employees. The fat is at the top now. When there was fat at the bottom, it was cut. Would you rather have sanitation workers, firemen, police officers or building inspectors cut or the worthless cronys taking up space? Hey, is your money and you have to decide.

Exactly.... I decide...not you and your biased (since you will benefit directly) views.

---

-- Edited by IHavehadenoughofhaters at 22:55, 2009-01-20