I have been reading across the hall ... and since I am no longer able to comment there I have to once again do it here.
Chaning the classification of our City is something that in my opinion should not be left to the city council ... it should be a question on the ballot and the majority of the voters should say if changing the classification is in the best interest of our city. Mr. McGoff who is in miniority is the one who wants to leave this decision to the people ... and how weird the ones who keep calling themselves the "Peoples Team" ... The Super Duper Majority ... have decided that this is the best that is to be done ... anyway ... I think it should be put to the voters!
Can a commuter tax and a 10% tax for ten years possibly cover the Doherty Era's incredible debt?
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Scranton officials ponder how to levy commuuter tax
By Jim Lockwood (Staff Writer)
Published: May 13, 2012
Shaun Slayton's drive to work in Scranton might get a bit more expensive.
The Clarks Summit resident is one of the thousands of commuters who live outside the city but work in it and who would have to pay a new wage tax that the city administration and council are planning to impose.
Reviving such a commuter tax is a key plank of a revised recovery plan being crafted by the administration and council under Act 47, the state's financially distressed municipality law. A 1 percent commuter tax would generate about $3 million to $4 million a year, and they hope to have it in place by Jan. 1. Under a 1 percent tax, a person earning $30,000 a year would pay $300.
Mr. Slayton, who works as a service adviser at Tom Hesser Nissan on Lackawanna Avenue, was not aware of the possible commuter tax but said he would not relish the hit to his wallet.
"I obviously wouldn't like it," Mr. Slayton said. "I can't afford any little bit."
However, he and other commuters may have no choice. Mayor Chris Doherty and city council agree a commuter tax is necessary to raise badly needed revenue for the financially strapped city, but they differ on the roads to take to get there.
Council favors change
Most council members want to change the city's classification, from Class 2A to Class 3, because they believe that will make it easier to impose a commuter tax. While the mayor initially supported that approach, he now says changing classification is unnecessary because the city can create a commuter tax under its current classification. Furthermore, under either classification, the city still would need to seek approval yearly for a commuter tax from Lackawanna County Court.
"You don't have to change the classification of the city. You can go to court" for commuter-tax approval, Mr. Doherty said.
Minority Councilman Bob McGoff also said, "As a 2A city we can implement a commuter tax," and that a classification change should be put before city voters.
The idea of a commuter tax dates to at least December 1971, when resident Francis McGeever suggested to council that it impose a $7 a week commuter tax, according to Times-Tribune archives. In 1974, city council President James Doherty, father of the current mayor, floated the idea for a commuter tax.
"The people who live in the city have to be helped by those who work here but don't live here," James Doherty was quoted in a July 1974 newspaper story. That's essentially the same argument raised today by council President Janet Evans.
In 1975, James Doherty proposed a 3 percent wage tax on all workers, both residents and out-of-towners, but it was rejected by his fellow council members. Mayors then began to take up the commuter-tax banner. Shortly after being elected mayor in 1977, Eugene Hickey pursued a commuter tax, but state legislators would not back it. In 1980, Mr. Hickey proposed a 1 percent commuter tax, but Councilman Neil Trama contended it was illegal and would require state legislation to allow it.
Many of the county's other municipalities strongly opposed a commuter tax, calling it "taxation without representation."
In 1986, Mayor David Wenzel tried to revive the idea, but it went nowhere. As the city's financial condition worsened, a commuter tax began to gain traction in 1990 and 1991, when Mayor Jim Connors and council endorsed the idea. However, neighboring municipalities again strongly opposed it.
After Scranton was designated in 1992 by the state as distressed under Act 47, the city in 1993-94 imposed a 0.6 percent commuter tax that raised $2 million a year for the city, but was much-hated by many who paid it and opponents fought it in court. The tax was upheld in court but discontinued after its two-year run.
In 1996, then-state Rep. Frank Serafini of Moosic, whose district ran from Moosic to Vandling but did not include Scranton, sponsored legislation that raised the bar for Scranton to impose a commuter tax. This Serafini law requires the city to demonstrate it has substantially implemented a recovery plan, including increasing taxes and fees on its own residents; has taken action to obtain approval to implement those changes from other required parties, such as the courts, voters and municipal unions; and shows the revenue generated by those efforts is insufficient to balance the city's budget.
Because the Serafini law applies only to a Class 2A city, and Scranton is the only one in the state, the council now wants to change the city's classification to Class 3, to avoid the Serafini hurdles.
The city could qualify as third class because its population dipped below 80,000 in two consecutive censuses, 2000 and 2010. The council has asked Gov. Tom Corbett to certify the census results to allow for the classification change.
"Their request is under legal review," said Kelli Roberts, a spokeswoman for the governor. "We're looking at the law, looking at what sort of steps it dictates. It's actually an 1895 statute that governs" classifications.
"Part of our review is determining what that appropriate process is, because it's not clearly written out in the law given how dated the statute is," Ms. Roberts said. "What we think will happen is the (state) DCED (Department of Community and Economic Development) would summarize the census findings and submit that to the governor, and he would just have to sign off on it."
However, even if census results are certified, the path forward for changing classification is unclear due to Scranton's unique 2A status, said state Sen. John Blake, D-22, Archbald.
It's unknown if a gubernatorial census certification means the classification is automatically changed or whether legislation would be needed, Mr. Blake said. A body of law developed over the years deals exclusively with Scranton's 2A status, either including or excluding Scranton from myriad issues, and an open question remains whether all those laws, such as one creating the city's Single Tax Office, would become moot or no longer valid, Mr. Blake said. As a result, a new law might be required to protect that body of 2A law and avoid possible "unintended consequences" of a classification change, he said.
"There are extensive circumstances that need to be reviewed before they go down this road" to third-class status, Mr. Blake said. "I just think it's worthy of a more deliberative review as to what consequences there would be if they change classification."
Mrs. Evans took issue with Mr. Blake's stance and questioned whether he was favoring the rest of the county over the city. For example, some 2A laws, such as the 1996 Serafini amendment, penalize the city in favor of the county, she said. Another law allows a county with a 2A city, and Lackawanna County is the only one in the state, to levy a hotel tax up to 4 percent. A pending bill would increase the hotel tax to 7 percent, "as long as Scranton remains a 2A city, and Scranton cannot levy a hotel tax since the county does so," Mrs. Evans said. "Is the county's hotel tax increase more essential in Mr. Blake's judgment than the city's proposed commuter tax?"
"Scranton should not be expected or advised to sacrifice itself to benefit the county," Mrs. Evans said. "Failure to support our city in this crucial crossroad may ultimately lead to financial defaults, a sharp decline in services and a mass exodus of residents and businesses. Rather, it is Lackawanna County that should help the beleaguered city of Scranton and its people, as should our elected state senator, John Blake."
Mr. Blake replied, "I'm not picking sides. I'm just advocating for a more deliberative process."
Scranton resident Andy Sbaraglia told the council at its meeting Thursday that the city should forget a commuter tax.
"To go out and ask somebody that lives in Dickson City or anywhere else to help pay for our incompetence, that's ridiculous," Mr. Sbaraglia said. "We deserve what we get. There's no question about it. We voted for these people. But don't ask the people of Dickson City, Taylor or Dunmore to join in our fiasco. We did it. No one else."
Contact the writer: jlockwood@timesshamrock.com
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I want everyone to stop and think about one thing ... Joe Pilchesky is not a lawyer ... he's just a guy playing a lawyer on the internet. Please don't trust your legal needs to this man.
Well they are the "people's team"...if you define "people" as just the city's unionized public safety employees and the likes of perpetually pissed off Fay Franus and Lester Spindlier (and their Master, Joe Pilchesky).
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Free Speech does't require a multi-paragrah disclaimer Mr. Pilchesky.
I don't think the "People's team" ever did anything that benefited unionized public safety employees. Any "benefits" unionized workers received were all due to contracts or arbitration awards, of which council has no control.
I'm really tired of the public safety unions being the whipping boy in any discussion.
1. The unions have ZERO control of city finances, how they are spent, how they are collected, or how they are distributed. They are not allowed to strike, and are bound to act within the confines of a contract...unlike the current and past administrations.
2. The sad, ugly truth is this: The public safety unions sat down and negotiated with the city three times. On all three occasions, handshake deals were reached. On all three occasions, the city refused to honor the negotiated potential contracts, and drastically changed the parameters after they left the bargaining table, hence no contracts were signed. ON ALL THREE OCCASIONS, THE SUPREME COURT CASES, (you remember, the ones that may cost the city 20 million just in single payouts) WERE FORGIVEN!!
In other words, Chris Doherty, PEL, and DCED could have had a palatable, fair, and much, much lest costly contract for fire and police, but they refused, and rolled the dice on a court decision.
a 1% Commuter tax? Hah! Try facing a 10% wage decrease in two years, along with a 79% property tax increase.
I hear what you're saying, but they certainly did have control of overtime, playing the game so that everyone gets a share of close to 1 million until management rights came into effect and shut that down. The pendulum swung both ways from what i remember. after sitting down at the table and negotiating, the city and the unions refused contract parameters that weren't discussed or negotiated. back to the bargaining table, back to court.
how about the fire and police actually pay for the health care they and their families receive? And since they're not missing the 20 or 30 million that's been awarded, how about they forgive that instead of strapping it onto the backs of everyone in the city? there are quite a few people that have received wage decreases, job losses, etc. it's not just happening here and not just happening in the union ranks. most people don't have union protection. they have to hope each day that they have a job. those two unions are still higher paid than most and guess what? you didn't have to take the job if you didn't want to do it. i thought it was a calling to help your fellow man, not just a paycheck.
Neither the police nor the firemen have control of overtime. The firemen have it built into their contract. I do believe they actually have a pretty good deal, because they now get paid about 5 grand more a year than cops do. That's unheard of anywhere else. The firemen refused OT for while, but police did not. But cops can't control when crime occurs, and if it happens on the end of the shift, they can't just go home and pick it up the next day.
As far as negotiations went, both unions agreed to forgive all pending court decisions. That included all this back pay that all Scranton residents will end up paying. I don't know what you remember from the negotiations, but there was no pendulum. Both police and fire would be paying more for health care, and earning less than the court decision awarded. There would have been no back pay. They both lost any manning clauses. The city agreed. PEL agreed. There was a handshake deal. A week later, the city came back with 7 pages of language agreed upon in the negotiations, and then added an additional 10 pages in "management rights" language.
For the record, police and firemen now pay a $400.00 deductible every year, plus money from each check, and co-pays.
Who says police and firemen aren't missing the money? Try having the same wage for 9 years. Most folks in that situation dug themselves into debt waiting for a pay raise. The taxes strapped onto the backs of "everyone in the city" will also be felt by every union member.
The SPD and SFD might be higher paid than many in the city, but are below police and firemen in other towns, including Wilkes Barre, Hazleton. or Allentown.
Did you know a bus driver for Colts makes 22 bucks an hour? Until the court decision, cops and firemen made less than bus drivers. Plumbers, Carpenters, Electricians, and Cement masons all make more than police and firemen do.
A calling? Doctor"s have a "calling". How much do they get paid???
Neither the police nor the firemen have control of overtime. The firemen have it built into their contract.Which totaled over $900,000 in one year. Sweet. I do believe they actually have a pretty good deal, because they now get paid about 5 grand more a year than cops do. Also sweet. That's unheard of anywhere else. The firemen refused OT for while (while they ran all of their own businesses), but police did not.
For the record, police and firemen now pay a $400.00 deductible every year (so does everyone else in the city structure), plus money from each check, (wrong, they haven't paid into that for years. The clerical, dpw and management pay into the pool, police and fire pay NOTHING out of their check for health care (except co-pays.) That issue has been part of the recovery plan since the beginning) and co-pays (if you're lucky enough to have health insurance, you have co-pays).
Plumbers, Carpenters, Electricians, and Cement masons all make more than police and firemen do. (Most of these unions have been laid off for quite some time. Lots of friends collecting unemployment. They make money when they work, which is sometimes seasonal, sometimes market-related. Friend of mine that's pipe fitter hasn't had work since last year. They put their names up for bid and seems like the only work is out west.)
A calling? Doctor"s have a "calling". How much do they get paid???
bottom line is, it's a very good job, with decent pay and excellent benefits. you either want to do it or you don't. no one is holding a gun to anyone's head to continue to work in that career. i had a salary reduction of over $15,000 with the economic downturn. enough.
Neither the police nor the firemen have control of overtime. The firemen have it built into their contract.Which totaled over $900,000 in one year. Sweet. I do believe they actually have a pretty good deal, because they now get paid about 5 grand more a year than cops do. Also sweet. That's unheard of anywhere else. The firemen refused OT for while (while they ran all of their own businesses), but police did not.
For the record, police and firemen now pay a $400.00 deductible every year (so does everyone else in the city structure), plus money from each check, (wrong, they haven't paid into that for years. The clerical, dpw and management pay into the pool, police and fire pay NOTHING out of their check for health care (except co-pays.) That issue has been part of the recovery plan since the beginning) and co-pays (if you're lucky enough to have health insurance, you have co-pays).
Plumbers, Carpenters, Electricians, and Cement masons all make more than police and firemen do. (Most of these unions have been laid off for quite some time. Lots of friends collecting unemployment. They make money when they work, which is sometimes seasonal, sometimes market-related. Friend of mine that's pipe fitter hasn't had work since last year. They put their names up for bid and seems like the only work is out west.)
A calling? Doctor"s have a "calling". How much do they get paid???
bottom line is, it's a very good job, with decent pay and excellent benefits. you either want to do it or you don't. no one is holding a gun to anyone's head to continue to work in that career. i had a salary reduction of over $15,000 with the economic downturn. enough.
As did my family! We had a 10% wage reduction 3 years ago....guess what? We are ok with that because 90% of something is sure better than 100% of nothing. The police and fireman in general get my respect but they are really starting to whine at this point. If you don't like it here move on!
Neither the police nor the firemen have control of overtime. The firemen have it built into their contract.Which totaled over $900,000 in one year. Sweet. I do believe they actually have a pretty good deal, because they now get paid about 5 grand more a year than cops do. Also sweet. That's unheard of anywhere else. The firemen refused OT for while (while they ran all of their own businesses), but police did not.
For the record, police and firemen now pay a $400.00 deductible every year (so does everyone else in the city structure), plus money from each check, (wrong, they haven't paid into that for years. The clerical, dpw and management pay into the pool, police and fire pay NOTHING out of their check for health care (except co-pays.) That issue has been part of the recovery plan since the beginning) and co-pays (if you're lucky enough to have health insurance, you have co-pays).
Plumbers, Carpenters, Electricians, and Cement masons all make more than police and firemen do. (Most of these unions have been laid off for quite some time. Lots of friends collecting unemployment. They make money when they work, which is sometimes seasonal, sometimes market-related. Friend of mine that's pipe fitter hasn't had work since last year. They put their names up for bid and seems like the only work is out west.)
A calling? Doctor"s have a "calling". How much do they get paid???
bottom line is, it's a very good job, with decent pay and excellent benefits. you either want to do it or you don't. no one is holding a gun to anyone's head to continue to work in that career. i had a salary reduction of over $15,000 with the economic downturn. enough.
As did my family! We had a 10% wage reduction 3 years ago....guess what? We are ok with that because 90% of something is sure better than 100% of nothing. The police and fireman in general get my respect but they are really starting to whine at this point. If you don't like it here move on!
I didn't hear cops or firemen whining anywhere. I'm just stating a point. The police and firemen didn't create the problem, attempted to reconcile it, but the city administration refused.
Most people's reaction? Its those darn unions! Wrong, its the incompetent administration who created the huge debt, and the arrogant administration that was offered an out but refused to take it. Blame the administration of Chris Doherty for this problem. His unbridled spending and borrowing raised the city's debt service from 5 million a year to 19 million a year. His continued ignorance of contracts caused numerous arbitration awards. His refusal to honor agreements HE MADE with the unions when negotiating now cost the taxpayers (including myself) millions.
Police and Firemen do have decent paying jobs. Funny thing, all of you could have taken the test too, but if I recall only a handfull showed up for the last two of three.
Finally, I'll echo the same sentiments you posted. If you don't like it here, move on. There are no residency restrictions on taxpayers..
didn't hear whining anywhere? how about at the council podium every week? if you take a look at the numbers, the city is paying for over 600, that's right, 600 employees full ride until they get medicare. there are currently only 400 city employees total in all departments, counting management, of which there are 19. this isn't crippling the city? healthcare is around $11 million per year. tell me again it's not due in any way to the contracts
I dont watch council meetings. The same ten people get up every week and say the same things. But I haven't heard that cops or firemen have been there in a while.
And for the record, union employees lost post retirement health care coverage in 2002. So those extra 200 employees are people who retired before 2002. THOSE contracts were negotiated in the early 1990's. The 1996 contract was decided through arbitration, as was the 2002, and the 2008 "contracts".
Healthcare 11 million a year, but debt service is 19 million a year. Sounds to me like the spending spree by the Doherty administration was the bigger problem. (PS, the budget in Connors last year was 56 million dollars. In six years, Doherty had the budget at 85 million. That wasnt all health care costs. )
$57,497,641---2002---Mayor Doherty's 1st year in office $56,321,546---2003---Mayor Doherty's 2nd year in office $60,949,592---2004---Mayor Doherty's 3rd year in office $65,825,588---2005---Mayor Doherty's 4th year in office $74,695,546---2006---Mayor Doherty's 5th year in office $77,403,659---2007---Mayor Doherty's 6th year in office $84,558,875---2008---Mayor Doherty's 7th year Budget
One of the things I dislike about Northeast PA is the pervasive attitude that the way to bring yourself up is to drag others down.
If public safety unions can earn a good wage, what is wrong with that? Wouldn't anyone want to earn a good wage in their job?
If Scranton officials were serious about recovery, it would take unpopular measures (that they should have taken many years ago) and stop fooling around.
1. Privatize garbage collections. A private contractor could do the job at a much less expensive price, plus the savings in fuel, maintainence, and insurance by not driving trucks around, plus less management.
2. Cut every department, Police, Fire, Clerical, whats left of DPW, and management by 5 percent. Through layoffs, or attrition, the cuts happen within one year of implementation of the plan.
3. Take control of the "Authorities" to get control of spending. How can the Parking Authority be "autonomous" yet the city has to bail them out?
4. Meet with non profits and get a much larger PILOT contribution. The University should be paying about 3 to 5 million a year. Marywood should pay close to a million. The same for the hospitals. If they refuse, explain that the city will take steps to mandate fees in other ways.
5. LOWER the mercantile tax and property tax. The reason there are so many commuters is its cheaper to live outside the city. In addition, enact a fair commuter tax. Commuters do drive to work on Scranton roads, and consume some city services. If the city continues to raise property taxes, the jobs that people commute to will be gone, because it will be too expensive to operate there.
6. Through whatever means possible, pay down long term debt. When 25% of a cities budget is debt service, something is drastically wrong.
The administration is a bunch of political hacks (like every adminstration), whose purpose is to get re-elected. They refuse to make tough decisions because it will hurt future election plans. When will people realize, that when a ship has been heading for an iceberg for years, you blame the captain, not the crew.....
One of the things I dislike about Northeast PA is the pervasive attitude that the way to bring yourself up is to drag others down.
If public safety unions can earn a good wage, what is wrong with that? Wouldn't anyone want to earn a good wage in their job?
I never said it was bad I said THEY whine that it is bad.
If Scranton officials were serious about recovery, it would take unpopular measures (that they should have taken many years ago) and stop fooling around.
1. Privatize garbage collections. A private contractor could do the job at a much less expensive price, plus the savings in fuel, maintainence, and insurance by not driving trucks around, plus less management.
I agree and I also would consolidate all the fire and police with the rest of the county. Supplementing with volunteers (fire) for outer rural regions.
2. Cut every department, Police, Fire, Clerical, whats left of DPW, and management by 5 percent. Through layoffs, or attrition, the cuts happen within one year of implementation of the plan.
Works for me
3. Take control of the "Authorities" to get control of spending. How can the Parking Authority be "autonomous" yet the city has to bail them out?
I suggest disolving them altogether. They seem like a money pit to me.
4. Meet with non profits and get a much larger PILOT contribution. The University should be paying about 3 to 5 million a year. Marywood should pay close to a million. The same for the hospitals. If they refuse, explain that the city will take steps to mandate fees in other ways.
I like the idea but it can't not be done through force....unless the laws change any action you take punitively will be successfully challenged in court.....been there done that!
5. LOWER the mercantile tax and property tax. The reason there are so many commuters is its cheaper to live outside the city. In addition, enact a fair commuter tax. Commuters do drive to work on Scranton roads, and consume some city services. If the city continues to raise property taxes, the jobs that people commute to will be gone, because it will be too expensive to operate there.
Works for me
6. Through whatever means possible, pay down long term debt. When 25% of a cities budget is debt service, something is drastically wrong.
The administration (and the city council) is a bunch of political hacks (like every adminstration), whose purpose is to get re-elected. They refuse to make tough decisions because it will hurt future election plans. When will people realize, that when a ship has been heading for an iceberg for years, you blame the captain, not the crew.....
I only blame the crew when they helped steer the boat with the captain this was the case in scranton.
I dont watch council meetings. The same ten people get up every week and say the same things. But I haven't heard that cops or firemen have been there in a while.
And for the record, union employees lost post retirement health care coverage in 2002. So those extra 200 employees are people who retired before 2002. Not 200, 600. 600 retired + 400 current employees. THOSE contracts were negotiated in the early 1990's. The 1996 contract was decided through arbitration, as was the 2002, and the 2008 "contracts".
Healthcare 11 million a year, but debt service is 19 million a year. Sounds to me like the spending spree by the Doherty administration was the bigger problem. (PS, the budget in Connors last year was 56 million dollars. In six years, Doherty had the budget at 85 million. That wasnt all health care costs. )
I'd like to read that book. I haven't read nearly enough drivel from "authors" who think their poorly written, humdrum, pedantic, and grammatically devoid musings are eloquent.
Please include all convoluted rantings about family court....they absolutely keep me pinned to my seat!!
