Members Login
Username 
 
Password 
    Remember Me  
PilcheskyDeceit True Freedom of Speech -> True Freedom of Speech ... Pilchesky denies Freedom of Speech -> 4 hero policemen
Post Info
TOPIC: 4 hero policemen
His Girl Thursday


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 2621
Date:
4 hero policemen
Permalink  
 

paraphrased from 'good cop bad cop' under 4 cops thread across the hall
::: ... First above all, there were women on the night shift. ... Perhaps a black cop would have made a difference, too.  This administration ... does not hire people of color  ... a hispanic cop would have been more likely to handle her situation. ... It's when there is no diversity in hiring that these situations can go further than they should. ...  Younger cops handle younger people better. ... :::

I know I am going to get a lambasting for this, but when I turn on my television, a large portion of the time the people being escorted by the policemen are primarily young or black or hispanic.  

Before pointing fingers and making accusatory remarks as to who is arresting the perpetrators, first take a look at who the perpetrators are.  The blacks and hispanics are always taking the stand that they are being persecuted and singled out as criminals -- well look at who was arrested in recent history.  A black man nearly beat an infant to death just this past week.  A black man brutally killed three people in South Scranton last year.  A black man chopped a woman to pieces and left her body parts scattered along Rt 380.  A Hispanic man is in the new today for assaulting his girlfriend.  Enrique somebody is in the news for armed robbery. And this is just in our small corner of the world.

You've got all these people on the wrong side of the law -- let's ask them when was the last time they applied for a job in law enforcement, or even tried to stay on the right side of the law.

It most certainly is pure ignorance on the part of the perpetrators.  But they don't even TRY to live a life which is worthwhile, even though the world is completely open to them, if they choose the right path.  It's just easier to deal drugs and believe that the world owes them; than it is to go to school and actually learn how to run their own convenient store tomorrow, instead of robbing one today.  The administration can't hire them if they don't apply for the jobs or even choose to live a life that resembles the straight and narrow. 

Sotomayor and Obama - one black, one hispanic - and look at the jobs THEY have because of the paths they've chosen.  There are enough opportunities out there (especially for blacks and hispanics) that could be and SHOULD BE taken advantage of.  So don't blame our middle-aged white mayor and policemen for a situation which could have been prevented a long time ago - possibly by the 'victim' herself

-- Edited by His Girl Thursday on Tuesday 2nd of June 2009 10:05:39 AM

__________________

Stupid people piss me off !
Agamemnon


DD: Where logic & proportion have fallen sloppy dead.

Status: Offline
Posts: 3768
Date:
4 hero policemen
Permalink  
 

Lambasting  Thursday?  At least not today, at least not from me.

Now could someone pull your post apart and claim "subtle" racism?  Sure they could, but this is American, and for example Newt Gingrich (arch-small government conservative who, for the most part, as spent most of his career working for the government...and family values guy who once ditched a cancer suffering wife for "a new model") can call Judge Sotomayor a racist with a straight face, so it's apparently open season on race-baiting...and I am not suggesting that Thursday is in any way engaged in that anyway.

Personally I don't buy anything that smacks of eugenics, as bad behavior and bad choices aren't the privy of any particular genetic make-up.  Where I do lay blame though is in parenting.  As President Obama and Judge Sotomayor can testify to with their life experiences, a good parent can guide a child into possibilities unimagined at birth, even from the most humble of beginnings.  Conversely, a bad parent usually guides their children into jail.  It's as simple as that.  Some folks just shouldn't breed...not because of passing some "dark-skinned" genetic code around, but because they are incapable of doing anything other than perpetuating their own bad choices on to their own children. 

Unfortunately (and just in my own opinion) society in America has helped to create and certainly perpetuated generational bad choices.  WE (not some outside force, but WE COLLECTIVELY as a society) hold up athletes, rappers, and the Paris Hilton's of this world up as examples of what someone who as "made it" looks like.  There is no more glory in the honorable act of working hard and earning what you have; instead we are raising a generation who believe that they are entitled to IPods, IPhones and other assorted IBling.  What happens when they can't get all that "IStuff" with their entry level job (or worse yet, while living on public assitance)?  Well, I think the answer lies in Thurday's post.

Look, I don't have any answers here, just thoughts on the causes.  To the extent that I can and within my reach, I do my very best as a parent to teach my children that no one is entitled to anything other than what they honestly work for; that may create idea that life is unfair...but so be it...as life is unfair at times, and we all just have to suck that one up as human beings.  Sometimes I am proud of the choices my kids make, sometimes I am not; mostly though I think they "get it", if only because they see that I practice what I preach.  That's my contribution to solving this problem.

-- Edited by Agamemnon on Tuesday 2nd of June 2009 09:00:33 PM

__________________ 
Free Speech does't require a multi-paragrah disclaimer Mr. Pilchesky.
His Girl Thursday


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 2621
Date:
RE: 4 hero policemen
Permalink  
 

Thank you for putting into words, what I could not. Primarily in absentia, parents are teaching their kids all about instant gratification. Why EARN it when you can just GET it -- why GET it when you can just TAKE it.


You're a pisser ! iStuff and iBling - You're gonna be PD's next Rachel Ray. Just don't start saying $hit like "E.V.O.O.", "sammies" and "yum-oh" because then we'll have to knock you around.

__________________

Stupid people piss me off !
Agamemnon


DD: Where logic & proportion have fallen sloppy dead.

Status: Offline
Posts: 3768
Date:
RE: 4 hero policemen
Permalink  
 

I think there is about two feet and a hundred + pounds between Rachael Ray and myself, so no chance of that ever happening.

On a more serious note, I've always just wanted to crawl into the head of someone who believes that they don't have work for a living, just to see what it would be like.  For the life of me I could not imagine it....which is why I think it's learned behavior that people "teach" to their children.

__________________ 
Free Speech does't require a multi-paragrah disclaimer Mr. Pilchesky.
His Girl Thursday


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 2621
Date:
RE: 4 hero policemen
Permalink  
 

Since the thread name is "4 hero policemen" I probably should make some reference to them, no?

I have no idea which 4 policemen they are, whether they are rookies or seasoned vets, but I will certainly give them the benefit of the doubt when it comes to how they behaved under the pressure of their jobs. To me, they are heroes each and every time they start a shift, and to all the police and fire personnel, I say a sincere and heartfelt "Thank You".

__________________

Stupid people piss me off !
Puzzler


Named Most Valuable Poster 4/5/09

Status: Offline
Posts: 204
Date:
RE: 4 hero policemen
Permalink  
 

The most disturbing posts on DD about all of this are the posters begging Joe to release the names of officers involved.  What good can come out knowing the names prior to release of the investigation report?  The answer is only more gossiping, speculation, and dragging these officers through the mud without having the entire story.



__________________
Agamemnon


DD: Where logic & proportion have fallen sloppy dead.

Status: Offline
Posts: 3768
Date:
RE: 4 hero policemen
Permalink  
 

No good can come of it, and there is no guarantee that Spouse-O-Felon actually has the names in the first place.  Pilchesky is engaging the the moral equivalent of profiteering...garnering a benefit (namely site traffic and an ego boost via the "I know stuff" postings) from a tragic event.

Here's two novel thoughts...

  1. Respect the dead by not speculating about the late Ms William's health/actions, etc.
  2. Respect the rule of law (namely innocence until guilt is determined) by not convicting the four officers in the absence of evidence

Ah, respect...something you don't hear all that often at DD.

__________________ 
Free Speech does't require a multi-paragrah disclaimer Mr. Pilchesky.
LusOnlyVoice


Site Administrator

Status: Offline
Posts: 5099
Date:
RE: 4 hero policemen
Permalink  
 

Puzzler wrote:

The most disturbing posts on DD about all of this are the posters begging Joe to release the names of officers involved.  What good can come out knowing the names prior to release of the investigation report?  The answer is only more gossiping, speculation, and dragging these officers through the mud without having the entire story.



They probably want to know who they are so that they can all go into stalker mode and follow them everywhere they go ... and report back to Joe and the kids across the hall every move that they make ... they are sick individuals ...

 



__________________

I want everyone to stop and think about one thing ... Joe Pilchesky is not a lawyer ... he's just a guy playing a lawyer on the internet.  Please don't trust your legal needs to this man.
Agamemnon


DD: Where logic & proportion have fallen sloppy dead.

Status: Offline
Posts: 3768
Date:
4 hero policemen
Permalink  
 

Stalking...well that may not be the worst that could happen. 

Consider some of the things that have been written about others at DD; think about it...if one of these four officers has a spouse that has had problems of any sort, you know that will come out at DD...and GOD FORBID that any have children who may have had problems of any sort...you know that will be brought up as well.

Don't worry though, I am sure that "Officer" Nelson will be coming to the defense of the his fellow brothers in the FOP any moment now, vigorously defending the officer's right to a presumption of innocence...........NOT.


-- Edited by Agamemnon on Friday 5th of June 2009 06:45:24 AM

__________________ 
Free Speech does't require a multi-paragrah disclaimer Mr. Pilchesky.
His Girl Thursday


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 2621
Date:
RE: 4 hero policemen
Permalink  
 

and if there's absolutely nothing whatsoever to uncover
... they'll CREATE something to hash about

__________________

Stupid people piss me off !
Agamemnon


DD: Where logic & proportion have fallen sloppy dead.

Status: Offline
Posts: 3768
Date:
4 hero policemen
Permalink  
 

A great post from Hardcore. 

Look, this shooting did not go well, that's for sure and I am certain that procedures can be improved, lessons learned and hopefully similar events in the future will have better outcomes.  That noted, the police officers in question did what they thought was right in an extremely difficult situation, and I for one think it's incredibly STUPID to engage in "they should have" talk, especially when that kind of talk comes from a bunch of conspiracy-theory loons who probably never move away from their computer keyboards.

Lastly, still no defense of these officers from well-known DD poster and charter Doomer "Nelson". 

Nelson...unlike the officers involved in this incident, you sir are a blithering coward.  If you are unable to defend your fellow officers on a stupid Internet message board, I'd be hard pressed to believe that you would be able to defend  them in the field.  Hang your head in shame.



Hardcore

avatar.img?ID=201969

Status: Online
Posts: 904
Date: Jun 17 7:20 AM, 2009

...." She died in front of a couch, one with six cusions on it. Pick one".
I've had a lot of training.  I never once heard of "couch cushions" as being in the use of force continuim.   Does that come before pepper spray or after baton?

..."Make it an honest hiring process with competitive salaries and that might change"
I'd love to see a competative salary.  The hiring practices vary form administration to administration.  I'd love to see more blacks and other minorities on the department.  If they don't even take the test, they will never get hired.  "Johnnie Cochran complained a few days ago Scranton should recruit outside the city to get more minorities.  last I checked there were plenty of minorities living here.

..."And as we've discovered, not being one can get you killed, too."
Don't attack a cop with a gun, or a knife, or a pellet gun that looks real, or any other weapon.  Our training, as I have said repeatedly, teaches us to use one step higher force than the level of force directed at us.  The response to a knife is deadly force, not couch cushion.

".... naked and pissed, screaming obscenities and threats, getting more pissed by the minute that her apartment is full of men with guns, until she finally remembered where she kept her knives."
See the part of the investigation that says she wasn't under arrest, and wasn't an involuntary committal.  Restraint would have been violating her civil rights.  (Oh yeah, here comes the retort that shooting her violated her rights too)  
Most of us have been on lots of 302 calls.  They have all ended peacefully.  I didn't hear anyone crying for reform then.  The system isn't perfect, and nothing will make it perfect.  But the armchair quarterbacks will argue about "what should have been done" for weeks and weeks, when the actual decision making had to be done in under 30 seconds. 

"You applaud that Jordan remained in a closet, and Stanek and Knoch remained behind a wall partition while she headed out of sight and straight for the kitchen?"
When dealing with a person with mental challenges, the least show of force is usually the best method.  Trying to stay out of her line of sight was an attempt to de-escalate.

"You applaud that they all froze to the tune of knives clanging together instead of taking a defensive posture that could have avoided shooting her? See couch cushions." 
The diagram is only accurate as to where everyone was when the shots were fired. 

"That's a horse-out-of-the-barn offense. No sale. It never will be. Irrelevant to the issue before us."
Defending oneself in a knife attack is irrelevant? I'm glad you didn't author our constitution.

"Why did they have to ultimately defend themselves? Their reckless inaction armed the situation with lethal opportunity."
Reckless is doing something you know you shouldn't knowing the possible outcome.  Negligent is doing something you shouldn't where you should have known a possible outcome.  The cops are neither.  No violence for 20 minutes suggests the opposite.  The person is non violent.  

"We've ALL seen cops on those cop shows handcuff suspects while they go through the trunk of their car, etc."
Yeah, I tried using that one too when I first apllied to be a cop.  They asked if I had the required 780 hours of training, and I said "No, but I've watched a lot of cop shows".

"Run where? They're paid not to run, are they not?"
And they didn't.  Where's the beef? 

"Prison guards deal with inmates fashioning sharp objects out of things like toothbrushes all the time, no one gets shot, and they disarm them. In fact, they don't even have guns. Good thing, eh?"
Prison guards get stabbed a lot too, which is why they don't wera ballistic vests, they were stab proof vests.  Guards don't have guns because they would be taken away from them.  Ask any CO.  The inmates run the prisons.  

I've explained every aspect several times. I'm tired of it.  Lot's of hypotheticals, lot's of "what ifs", lots of coulda shoulda woulda.  The state police say the cops were justified.  The DA says the cops were justified.  The chief says the cops were justified.  The uneducated, untrained, court of public opinion, who formulate ideas without facts say otherwise. 

Feel free to insert the part about "protect and serve" and "We pay your salary" anytime now.    





-- Edited by Agamemnon on Wednesday 17th of June 2009 07:45:58 AM

__________________ 
Free Speech does't require a multi-paragrah disclaimer Mr. Pilchesky.
IHavehadenoughofhaters


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 3414
Date:
RE: 4 hero policemen
Permalink  
 

Oh look a compliment to Joey.........oh wait its Joey saying it lol .......How pathetic is that?


hitlersdownfall.gif

Status: Online
Posts: 42
Date: Jun 17 5:13 PM, 2009

A tip of the hat to Steve Corbett and Joe for making this issue as important as it should be and for not letting pro-cop posters take over the talk show or this thread. There are many lessons to be learned here and they can't be learned by dodging the tough questions. It is what it is, and Steve and Joe are the best at saying it exactly the way it is.


__________________

Hey Joey?? Bite me! :))
LusOnlyVoice


Site Administrator

Status: Offline
Posts: 5099
Date:
RE: 4 hero policemen
Permalink  
 

Oh yeah I want to learn all of my lessons from Joe Pilchesky and Steve Corbett ... I trust in what Hardcore is saying. Enough said by me on this.

__________________

I want everyone to stop and think about one thing ... Joe Pilchesky is not a lawyer ... he's just a guy playing a lawyer on the internet.  Please don't trust your legal needs to this man.
Agamemnon


DD: Where logic & proportion have fallen sloppy dead.

Status: Offline
Posts: 3768
Date:
RE: 4 hero policemen
Permalink  
 

Occasionally I will have Corbett on the radio when I come home from work, although lately I've had to turn it off.  Steve Corbett is using the death of this woman to both promote himself and to make money for his radio station, both on the backs of these Scranton Police officers.

Look, I have no problem arguing about police contracts, FOP leaders, etc, but at the end of the day I always respect what they do.  They deserve that much.  The disrespect coming from the likes of Corbett and Pilchesky is shameful.

__________________ 
Free Speech does't require a multi-paragrah disclaimer Mr. Pilchesky.
IHavehadenoughofhaters


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 3414
Date:
RE: 4 hero policemen
Permalink  
 

Agam as usual you are dead on.......Corbet is making my skin crawl with this one. 

Real BAD!

__________________

Hey Joey?? Bite me! :))
LusOnlyVoice


Site Administrator

Status: Offline
Posts: 5099
Date:
RE: 4 hero policemen
Permalink  
 

I have never listened to Corbett ... so I have no idea what his show is like

__________________

I want everyone to stop and think about one thing ... Joe Pilchesky is not a lawyer ... he's just a guy playing a lawyer on the internet.  Please don't trust your legal needs to this man.
Page 1 of 1  sorted by
 
Quick Reply

Please log in to post quick replies.
PilcheskyDeceit True Freedom of Speech -> True Freedom of Speech ... Pilchesky denies Freedom of Speech -> 4 hero policemen
Tweet this page Post to Digg Post to Del.icio.us


Create your own FREE Forum
Report Abuse 		Powered by ActiveBoard