Don't get me wrong, but I think I have been screaming all summer and now winter for the Police to get away from the "ME Too" greedyfiremen and get their own contract before its too late. Well the Court has spopken 7-0 I believe and now it is too late. Mayor Doherty has the leverage and now the law behind him. I think its going to be very interesting to see what happens next. The firemen only had a few hours to retire with their health care, not fair considereing the eligible ones gave 25 yrs or more of service only too have to work until 62. I hope the Cops get the message real clear and get out while they can, the PA Supreme will never overturn a 7-0 decision, trust me better yet bet me. I hate to say I told you so, but Guess what, It didn't take Nastradamous to figure that one out.
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Just when you thought it was safe to open your mind......
The municipal unions have lost, period. The appeals are only costing the union rank and file more money...I hope Attorney Jennings buys a boat and names it "Union Paid", because that's a fairly good description of what's happening.
Now it's time to drop the lawsuit madness, check the egos at the door (on both the Mayor and Union sides), and accept reality...
...management (not the unions) should be in charge and set basic working conditions ...public employees have a reasonable expectation for cost of living pay increases ...benefit packages should be competitive with...but not better than...that of the private sector
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Free Speech does't require a multi-paragrah disclaimer Mr. Pilchesky.
The municipal unions have lost, period. The appeals are only costing the union rank and file more money...I hope Attorney Jennings buys a boat and names it "Union Paid", because that's a fairly good description of what's happening.
Now it's time to drop the lawsuit madness, check the egos at the door (on both the Mayor and Union sides), and accept reality...
...management (not the unions) should be in charge and set basic working conditions ...public employees have a reasonable expectation for cost of living pay increases ...benefit packages should be competitive with...but not better than...that of the private sector
You know Agam maybe you should consider a run for office as you are quite reasonable. The above solution would be quite aceptable to everyone I know and chat with.... :)
Taylor, I believe it was Commonwealth Court, not Superior. Superior Court is limited to civil and criminal appeal cases. Not labor cases.
What police officers can retire? I believe only a few are eligible to retire. Most of the older police officers were already chased away by Doherty. It's a young department.
How do you know the Supreme Court will not hear the firemen's case? If you could prove that Nostradamus, do you have tonight's powerball numbers?
Ag, are you another seer? How about the daily number for tonight? Wow, you guys should start a psychic hotline! On your other points: management (not the unions) should be in charge and set basic working conditions Who besides the Scranton Times' editorial writers ever said the rank and file police and firemen were in charge? Do you actually believe the workers are in charge? I'd hate to call you naive again. ...public employees have a reasonable expectation for cost of living pay increases With that I agree. ...benefit packages should be competitive with...but not better than...that of the private sector Are they better than private sector benefits now? Could it be possible they are worse? Oh, you still believe they have "cadillac" healthcare?
Ihave, I agree! Once cold hard reality drowns his naivety, and I think once Ag knew what's really going on, first hand, and not the crap you read in the paper or what Doherty's take on reality is, he would make a great candidate for office. Sign me up!
The mayor is a union buster from day one . When he was on council he never voted for a contract. any policeman or firemen that support him deserve what they get.
"Who besides the Scranton Times' editorial writers ever said the rank and file police and firemen were in charge? Do you actually believe the workers are in charge? I'd hate to call you naive again"
Shari...who has insisted that the chiefs be members of the respective unions all these years? Remeber that little ditty? Who fought tooth and nail to prevent the Mayor from deciding when police should be scheduled? We all know that most crime happens during the day, right? Now this isn't to give past mayors...or this mayor for that matter...a pass in being inept, but come on, Shari, this notion of "innocent, victimized union members" makes about as much sense as a drug squad that works bankers hours.
"Are they better than private sector benefits now? Could it be possible they are worse? Oh, you still believe they have "cadillac" healthcare?"
You missed the point. Take your Pilchesky Colored Glasses off for a minute and re-read what I wrote. The benefit packages should be regularly compared to what is offered in the private sector and adjusted accordingly. Believe it or not, that kind of benefit benchmarking is what many private sector employers do, including my own. By comparing benefit packages regularly, the city can ensure that the benefits are fair to the employees and reasonable in cost for the taxpayers.
Speaking of "Cadillac Benefits", are you still insisting that police and firemen deserve better benefits than everyone else? I seem to recall you saying that, for example, a policeman deserves a better benefit package than, say IHave does.
-- Edited by Agamemnon at 21:38, 2009-01-29
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Free Speech does't require a multi-paragrah disclaimer Mr. Pilchesky.
The police chief's were always in the union as far back as I can remember. The fire chief was never in the union. Are you refering to the Jimmy Klee incident where he caused the problem and then profited from it? Real bad, wasn't that. Well Lisa Moran caused a problem with the clerical employees over maternity leave. She lost the case and then guess what happened next? Yep, she profited from it. And the kicker? It was the ONLY case the mayor didn't appeal to a higher court? Why is that? Maybe because his crony cut a check for ten thousand for herself? The paper must have missed that one. Nope, the paper doesn't protect this mayor. I'm just crazy to think that.
On healthcare, what do you suppose it costs the city for healthcare. Do you want to bet it's cheaper than what you have. I couldn't say for sure unless I know what program you are on, but I bet it's cheaper. You wouldn't know that, since all you hear is how much it costs the city. The "cadillac plan" that hasn't been around for city employees in decades. They still say it though, because if they say it enough, people like you will actually believe it. I'm not saying our spouses should have anything better than anyone else, but please stop the nonsense. These are dangerous jobs and the least the city could do is stand by their employees if they are injured. I think everyone should have decent healthcare, but I don't buy into the twisted philosophy that "if I don't have it no one else should". I'd rather fight to receive it than take it from someone who has it.
Jeez Shari, you make David appear sedate. I think all this Doherty-hate is stressing you out. Take a vacation. Mexico is nice this time of the year. Anyway, while I do grow tired of repeating myself, what the hell...
The police chief's were always in the union as far back as I can remember. The fire chief was never in the union. [Seeing as though it's about 99% certain that you are a city employee, I'll take your word for it.] Are you refering to the Jimmy Klee incident where he caused the problem and then profited from it? Real bad, wasn't that. [No, I am referring to very concept of someone who can violate the contract then reap the benefits of the arbitration award.] Well Lisa Moran caused a problem with the clerical employees over maternity leave. She lost the case and then guess what happened next? Yep, she profited from it. And the kicker? It was the ONLY case the mayor didn't appeal to a higher court? Why is that? Maybe because his crony cut a check for ten thousand for herself? The paper must have missed that one. Nope, the paper doesn't protect this mayor. I'm just crazy to think that. [I guess you've never read what I've had to say about the Mayor's personnel choices. Oh well. It must be those Pilchesky Glasses you wear (as opposed to the "Rose Colored" ones. Anyway, if you think that the Moran deal was bad, I am assuming that you agree the chief shouldn't be in the union. Good. Now please go over to DD and make that point. I'm sure you will get a lot of support. Not. Oh, and I don't think you are crazy...I think you are blinded by stupid hatred.]
On healthcare, what do you suppose it costs the city for healthcare. [According to Towers Perrin & EBRI, anywhere from $9700 to $12,000. Next.] Do you want to bet it's cheaper than what you have. I couldn't say for sure unless I know what program you are on, but I bet it's cheaper. [You are making wild-a$$ guesses Shari, and you know it. Not only do not know what it costs my employer, but you will never know what it costs my employer. I will tell you this: I pay more out of pocket than you think.] You wouldn't know that, since all you hear is how much it costs the city. [You are incorrect. I do, in fact, know what healthcare costs my employer.] The "cadillac plan" that hasn't been around for city employees in decades. [Again...SHOW ME WHERE I SAID city employees have a "cadillac plan". You are embellishing to the point of the ridiculous. Bash Doherty all you want...make excuses for Pilchesky all you want...but for God's sake, at least refer to what I say correctly or stop making the references entirely.] They still say it though, because if they say it enough, people like you will actually believe it. [Read above Shari. Please cut & paste the line where I said they had this "caddilac coverage"...that or shut your pie hole.] I'm not saying our spouses should have anything better than anyone else, [No, you implied that city employees should have better coverage than everyone else. IF ANYTHING, YOU ARE SAYING THEY DESERVE "caddilac" coverage. Interesting twist, huh?]but please stop the nonsense. [Nonsense Shari? You went so far as to compare city employees to our soldiers fighting overseas. Funny, you didn't defend that point, now did you?] These are dangerous jobs and the least the city could do is stand by their employees if they are injured. I think everyone should have decent healthcare, but I don't buy into the twisted philosophy that "if I don't have it no one else should". I'd rather fight to receive it than take it from someone who has it.[No, instead you buy into the twisted philosophy that somehow municipal employees exist in this vaccum outside of economic reality...that they somehow work longer and harder than the rest of us...that being a policeman or fireman is somehow the most dangerous occupation on the planet (which it's not...look into the injury statistics by occupation for yourself). I really do have the utmost respect for many of Scranton's employees, and I've said time and time again here...in writing...that they deserve a decent wage and reasonable benefits for what they do. They don't deserve to have it better than anyone else.]
-- Edited by Agamemnon at 07:23, 2009-01-30
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Free Speech does't require a multi-paragrah disclaimer Mr. Pilchesky.
I am still waiting for the explanation of why if city jobs suck so much......Why is it everyone and their brother will knife the next guy to get one and why does it take a baseball bat (figuratively speaking of course ) to get them out of the jobs? Hummmmmmmmmmm???
I would go on vacation but once again I cannot. The person you voted for and as stated you will again, hasn't supplied my better half with a raise in years. It's becoming more difficult as the years go by to supply the basic necessities for my family. But we've cut back on many expenses, one being a nice vacation so that the mayor can stuff tens of millions into his crony contributor's pockets for nothing.
Agreed, chief's, cabinet members and management should never be in the union. They could manipulate the system to their benefit. No argument here.
Stupid hatred? How about hatred (a little too strong of a word for me, I prefer "intense frustration" better) of obvious intellegent people like you who could possibly vote for a person like Chris Doherty after a few years of watching his actions. It boggles my mind.
Sorry about the cadillac statement. It wasn't you. Sometimes my "intense frustration" gets the best of me. I was generalizing about the same rhetoric we hear all the time.
Taking my thoughts out of context about the comparison of city employees is typical of your debate. You know that's not what I meant. I meant dangerous jobs require support from the employer, whether it's private employment or public employment. My point is how bad would it be to not medically support soldiers if they're injured? How many people would join up? None. And only two different senarios would support anyone who would do a dangerous job. Higher pay to afford healthcare or giving them healthcare within a benefit package. You can't have low pay and no benefits and expect anyone to become North Sea fishermen, soldiers, Police officers, firemen, highrise steel workers, miners or any predominently dangerous professions. No one would do it. Why should that be any different in Scranton? Because it IS different in Scranton relative to benefit packages and wages in most other communities. Because Chris Doherty would rather throw money to cronys than take care of his employees. That's the point I was trying to make. Just look at how many police applicants applied for the job this week. 21, I believe? Does that not make you think there's a problem? He's destroying our public safety departments.
I do not think the city employees are outside the reality of the economic situation! That's exactly what I post about. They are in a way in a vacuum where they get screwed, while management get riases, tax money is wasted and spent on nonsense, political cronys and contracts to contributors. If the economic situation is bad, why is it that only a few are hurt by it, when everyone else who's connected is reaping everything? He's filling his campaign coffers with the public money he doles out to these people. Does that not bother you?
On your last statement, I agree. City employees should not make way above what comparable professions do. But the fact is they make MUCH less now and have for many years. Do you think they deserve a break from time to time? Considering how much money the mayor has thrown around or wasted on nonsense?
I would go on vacation but once again I cannot. The person you voted for and as stated you will again, hasn't supplied my better half with a raise in years. It's becoming more difficult as the years go by to supply the basic necessities for my family. But we've cut back on many expenses, one being a nice vacation so that the mayor can stuff tens of millions into his crony contributor's pockets for nothing.
Agreed, chief's, cabinet members and management should never be in the union. They could manipulate the system to their benefit. No argument here.
Stupid hatred? How about hatred (a little too strong of a word for me, I prefer "intense frustration" better) of obvious intellegent people like you who could possibly vote for a person like Chris Doherty after a few years of watching his actions. It boggles my mind.
Sorry about the cadillac statement. It wasn't you. Sometimes my "intense frustration" gets the best of me. I was generalizing about the same rhetoric we hear all the time.
Taking my thoughts out of context about the comparison of city employees is typical of your debate. You know that's not what I meant. I meant dangerous jobs require support from the employer, whether it's private employment or public employment. My point is how bad would it be to not medically support soldiers if they're injured? How many people would join up? None. And only two different senarios would support anyone who would do a dangerous job. Higher pay to afford healthcare or giving them healthcare within a benefit package. You can't have low pay and no benefits and expect anyone to become North Sea fishermen, soldiers, Police officers, firemen, highrise steel workers, miners or any predominently dangerous professions. No one would do it. Why should that be any different in Scranton? Because it IS different in Scranton relative to benefit packages and wages in most other communities. Because Chris Doherty would rather throw money to cronys than take care of his employees. That's the point I was trying to make. Just look at how many police applicants applied for the job this week. 21, I believe? Does that not make you think there's a problem? He's destroying our public safety departments.
I do not think the city employees are outside the reality of the economic situation! That's exactly what I post about. They are in a way in a vacuum where they get screwed, while management get riases, tax money is wasted and spent on nonsense, political cronys and contracts to contributors. If the economic situation is bad, why is it that only a few are hurt by it, when everyone else who's connected is reaping everything? He's filling his campaign coffers with the public money he doles out to these people. Does that not bother you?
On your last statement, I agree. City employees should not make way above what comparable professions do. But the fact is they make MUCH less now and have for many years. Do you think they deserve a break from time to time? Considering how much money the mayor has thrown around or wasted on nonsense?
Agam isn't yelling he needs the larger print because he has vision problems. A fact you would know if you bothered to actually read any of his posts in full. He mentions it often to explain the large print he uses when he posts.
Also as I have already explained onceand will not explain again.... I said "cadilac plan" not Agam...... I also used the PAST TENSE when I did...you do know what past tense means..correct?? Again if you would actually bother to read what we post instead of browsing a few key words and jumping to conclusions you might actually have a clue what I and the others have said (hint the underlined words 'have said" are in the past tense) :)
Now....I am still waiting for the explanation as to why if city jobs suck so much......it is everyone and their brother will knife the next guy to get one and why does it take a baseball bat (figuratively speaking of course ) to get them out of the jobs? Hummmmmmmmmmm???
-- Edited by IHavehadenoughofhaters at 16:04, 2009-01-30
I will answer your question. I, nor anyone else I know, ever said their jobs "suck". That was another delusional assumption, concluded in your uninformed mind, which had nothing to do with the situation as I know it. They love there jobs and always did. (and still do) Their wages are begining to "suck" after all the years of wage freezes. And what do you based your assumptions on? Where are all the masses waiting in line to get these jobs? There used to be masses waiting in line to get these jobs, but the mayor has made it the opposite. The paper reported yesterday that even in this economic disaster, where many unfortunate people are looking for decent jobs, 21 people signed up for the police test. Does that sound strange to you? Has that EVER happened in the entire history of the city before Chris Doherty hit the scene? Does that make a rational person pause for a second and say to themselves what the heck is going on in the city? Where are the lines Ihave? I don't see any? Do you? Are you naive and in denial too? Do you even care about the degree of public safety in your city? Sorry, the "intense frustration" is happening again. Your posts are void of reality. It just bothers me. I mean no disrespect although I'm sure it comes off that way. Sincerely.
As noted by IHave, I wasn't yelling (that would be IN ALL CAPS), but I do use mainly 14pt bold because I have fairly crappy vision. Lus has been kind enough to let me post at that font size as an accomodation. Now if I were a regular poster on DD, I'd probably find some way to blame Doherty specifically (or the Irish in general) for my vision, but alas, it's just genetics. Hey wait a minute though...maybe I can get Pilchesky to sue God for me. What do you think?
Glad to see that we agree with the whole Chief thing. There may be hope for you yet.
As for who I voted for, that was Doherty, twice. As for who I will vote for, that depends. Unlike your overly simplistic view of posters here, my vote isn't pre-determined. Nor is the vote of many posters here either. If a decent candidate were running, I'd look at where they stand on the issues and make a decision from there. Hell, if you actually read what people post here, you'd see that none of us here are Doherty fanatics. That's a fiction YOU (that was yelling) created.
Note that this site is called "PilcheskyDeceit" not "DohertyRocks" or "WeLuvChris".
Do I "like" Chris Doherty? As a person, yes. He's a decent guy, and I actually have a few things in common with him. In the world of who I vote for though, that means nothing.
Also, you need to get over your obsession with the Scranton Times. None of us cut and paste Times articles here; that's a DD pastime. In fact, I think it's against our posting rules. The idea that we blindly follow the Times is another fiction YOU (that was yelling) created. Why? I think you do it because they, like Doherty, are a convenient foil for your rage. In reality though, life is far too complex for boogie men Shari.
No ovary (or testicle) busting here Shari, but honestly, you seem to only see what you want to see in many of the postings here. Do yourself a favor: actuallyREAD (that was yelling) what we write. Most of us have been critical of Doherty; unlike DD posters however, we don't accuse him causing a suicide, having affairs, etc. We also don't believe that he is smart/talented/rich enough to buy off the Federal Bureau of Investigation either.
-- Edited by Agamemnon at 18:53, 2009-01-30
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Free Speech does't require a multi-paragrah disclaimer Mr. Pilchesky.
I think we're finding common ground, if in fact you can tolerate my one issue I enjoy chatting about. I admit I don't read every post, because frankly, I'm not interested. When a post appears that sparks my attention, I like to jump in. I will almost admit Ag, that even though you bust my "ovaries", you do it with some wit.
Ihave, what happens on DD.com and certain posters is their business. I'm telling you what I know from my side of the fence, from people I know personally. That's it. I won't defend, make excuses or ridicule what happens there. I state what I either know or what my opinion is, here or there. I feel some there are wrong and some I agree with, same thing here. That's their, and your perogative. Hopefully I bring useful information or thought provoking opinions to both forums. That's my goal.
